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Just wanted to find out what others think.
I am under the school of thought that you don't enter in a building if you have to break something to do it, I.E. pry a door open or break a window, even in the build is old and uninhabitted.
But what about other methods of entry? Like picking locks or taking a door of the hinges? I figure if you can leave it the way you found it, then it's cool. But of course police don't look to kindly on picking locks or removing doors.
What do you think?
I am under the school of thought that you don't enter in a building if you have to break something to do it, I.E. pry a door open or break a window, even in the build is old and uninhabitted.
But what about other methods of entry? Like picking locks or taking a door of the hinges? I figure if you can leave it the way you found it, then it's cool. But of course police don't look to kindly on picking locks or removing doors.
What do you think?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Entering Ethics
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 8:41 PMWell, since often you would be breaking laws it's probably too late to worry about what the police look kindly on. So picking locks and removing door are just find...hehe I am of the same school though, leaving things how you find them is good. I am a big fan of the polaroid...
Still, I'm not very experienced with urban exploring, so you might want a more experienced opinion.
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Re: Entering Ethics
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 9:47 AMYou're really talking about two different issues here. Legality & ethics. Legally speaking lock picking, prying, etc constitute the "breaking" or breaking & entering and in many states that can mean the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony. Ethically speaking, most explorers I know don't have a problem with lockpicking or removing doors as they don't violate the "leave no trace" mantra. I must say though, I have only once not been able to find a way into a structure without resorting to any of these methods. I chose not to go when it did happen, and on one occasion another explorer found a viable way in later.
I would think that if you're doing non-permanent breaking to try your best to make it look like it was already that way when you got there. Always have a believable answer at hand (i.e. if the window was locked before, unlock it as soon as you get inside so you don't have to explain that you picked a lock.) -
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Re: Entering Ethics
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 1:14 PMAgreed. 90% of the time creativity and persistence eliminates the need for "strong arm" techniques.
Something that people often forget is that your method of entry will effect things in the future. If you create an entrance without resecuring it don't be surprised if you find squatters or vandalism the next time you visit. Likewise if your entry method is left obvious then its more likely to get sealed up than if you return it to its original state.
I don't do smashy, smashy but picking or "persuading" a door or window to open I'll do, as long as there's no permanent damage. Personally I like to find a "legit" way in, then secure a few "secret" entrances for myself where nobody's likely to think to look. Always, always try to leave things the way you found them, or as close as possible. -
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Re: Entering Ethics
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 3:43 PMthe good thing about picking locks is that unless you are arrested while doing it, it would be very difficult to prove that you picked the lock, if you say that you just found the door was unlocked. using improvised lock picks is also better than using professional one, because if you get arested, possessing professional lock picks can be a problem, while improvised picks can be disposed of or concealed more easiely.
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Re: Entering Ethics
Sun, March 5, 2006 - 3:27 PMUse 'em and stash 'em someplace immediately afterwards. After we picked our way into some steam tunnels we actually put the picks in an empty locker and put our own lock on it. ;) -
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Unsu...
Re: Entering Ethics
Wed, June 7, 2006 - 2:32 PMgood Idea! I never thought of doing anything like that. But how often are you allowed the chance of a locked being there. I tend to hide my picks in small drains.
as for ethics, I think that there is two sets of rules, the first set being based in common courtesy (ie don't break or steal things) and the second being based on comfort levels(ie you don't want to get a felony for lockpicks).
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